finally someone tells it like it is. - big ben - 08-27-2013
 Originally Posted by h2
Since I know you're reading these, but won't admit it: I've already offered that solution. Get the fucking government out of our market. Don't let them decided who the winners and losers are by using our tax dollars to save them. Let consumers decide which corporations are successful based on their ability to produce the best product, at the best price.
but you don't have a problem with corporations lobbying and donating?
corporations are good IN THEORY; however empirical evidence shows corporations are not innately good.
it operates on the assumption they stay within the boundaries of their field; which they don't. it goes both ways; letting them be involved on government contracting, lobbying etc. prevents the government from staying out of corporate involvement (shout out to Northrop Grumman!). just like there should be separation of church and state (I say should because there clearly isn't), there needs to be serration of corps and state
finally someone tells it like it is. - big ben - 08-27-2013
Originally Posted by klassik
Damn h2 has the right. Idea. Capitalism forces innovation with high reward. Thats why we grew so quickly. You are crazy if you think redistribution of wealth to someone who didn't earn it is still going to cultivate new innovative products and ideas.
ben franklin, bell, wright brothers, gates, etc....none of their inventions, or really any significant invention or discovery, has been made by corporate r&d dude
not wanting corporations to control the nation isn't communistic. capitalism and corporation are two INDEPENDANT things
finally someone tells it like it is. - B-Dub - 08-27-2013
Originally Posted by big ben
just like there should be separation of church and state (I say should because there clearly isn't), there needs to be serration of corps and state
tell me where in the constitution does it say "separation of church and state" because if you say first amendment then you need to learn how to read.
and yes there needs to be separation of the corps and state.
finally someone tells it like it is. - B-Dub - 08-27-2013
its funny, that California tried to pass a law that banned unions and corps from donating to campaigns, and it was voted down. i wonder why...
finally someone tells it like it is. - lee majors - 08-27-2013
Originally Posted by big ben
ben franklin, bell, wright brothers, gates, etc....none of their inventions, or really any significant invention or discovery, has been made by corporate r&d dude
not wanting corporations to control the nation isn't communistic. capitalism and corporation are two INDEPENDANT things
+1 diversity breeds competitive environment which in turn leads to innovation; while all large corporate entities do is breed more $ for fewer and fewer people. i'm for smaller government and the end to the corporate reign. that's not a socialist. I feel like the word socialist is just being thrown around in todays society in the hopes to discredit people. i'm a lee majorist. its an elite group but anyone can join..well most anyone. lol
finally someone tells it like it is. - h2 - 08-27-2013
Originally Posted by big ben
but you don't have a problem with corporations lobbying and donating?
corporations are good IN THEORY; however empirical evidence shows corporations are not innately good.
it operates on the assumption they stay within the boundaries of their field; which they don't. it goes both ways; letting them be involved on government contracting, lobbying etc. prevents the government from staying out of corporate involvement (shout out to Northrop Grumman!). just like there should be separation of church and state (I say should because there clearly isn't), there needs to be serration of corps and state
Why would you think I'm ok with lobbying and donating, if I want government out of the mix? That doesn't even make sense. For clarification, the definition of lobbying: the act of attempting to influence decisions made by officials in the government, most often legislators or members of regulatory agencies. Same exact can be said for donating. So obviously, I am not ok with that.
finally someone tells it like it is. - big ben - 08-27-2013
Originally Posted by h2
Why would you think I'm ok with lobbying and donating, if I want government out of the mix? That doesn't even make sense. For clarification, the definition of lobbying: the act of attempting to influence decisions made by officials in the government, most often legislators or members of regulatory agencies. Same exact can be said for donating. So obviously, I am not ok with that.
the ONLY way corporate lobbying is going to dissolve is when corporations do; so promoting them is tantamount to facilitating ALL of their practices.
finally someone tells it like it is. - h2 - 08-27-2013
Originally Posted by big ben
the ONLY way corporate lobbying is going to dissolve is when corporations do; so promoting them is tantamount to facilitating ALL of their practices.
Let's face a fact, Corporations will never be dissolved. And the only way to stop lobbying is for politicians to stop accepting the "bribes". I don't fault the lobbyist, I fault the government. Lobbyist are simply people who represent a specific interest, take away the financial aspect and they're just asking for something. The answer can always be no. Politicians should represent the greater good of their state/country, within the definitions of the Constitution. THAT'S IT.
finally someone tells it like it is. - h2 - 08-27-2013
Ben, instead of trying to fix a broken system, why not take away campaigning altogether? State funded campaigns, every player on a level field. A lobbyist can only contribute to a campaign, so that'd fix it. Then there'd be no need to dissolve all those evil corporations!
finally someone tells it like it is. - big ben - 08-27-2013
Originally Posted by h2
Ben, instead of trying to fix a broken system, why not take away campaigning altogether? State funded campaigns, every player on a level field. A lobbyist can only contribute to a campaign, so that'd fix it. Then there'd be no need to dissolve all those evil corporations!
wouldn't work; there would be some other end around, or way for them to influence.....you're missing the point. a corporation is a SINGLE entity with more wealth and power than any other SINGLE person; yet has their same rights.
the concept of democracy breaks down when those who are controlled are not equal. and a corporation is exponentially more influencial than any other constituent there is; hell, combined
what is a dictatorship? a SINGLE entity with so much power and resources they can dictate anything within the confines of their region. a corporation could quite easily become a dictatorship.
that much power in the hands of a few is how we become ruled in totality
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